HotelChatter

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Rather than rushing to judgment, maybe we can wait and see how this works out.  It may turn out to be a bad business decision for all we know and since Mariott only manages the hotels didn't the actual owners have to agree to this new policy?

And religion had nothing to do with it.

C'est la vie

I'm all about freedom and was appalled when cities started going smoke-free. As someone who spends much of the year in Paris, I am accusotomed to being surrounded by a haze of smoke at all times though I prefer not to be. As for the U.S. however, I think it's inevitable; everything will be smoke free soon.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I have two perspectives on this matter, both as a hotel guest, and as a hotel employee.

As a guest, I personally cannot physically tolerate a smoking room. I am very sensitive to smoke and grew up around two smokers, taking pills for allergies almost every day. Now as an adult, I'm not around smoke in my day to day life and no longer am on daily medicine. When I do get around smoke, it not only creates breathing issues, but it will sometimes make my skin itch too if it is heavy. The last time I was in a smoking hotel room, I was unable to attend the meeting for work the next day which was the reason for staying in the hotel in first place.

At a stay in a Hilton property not long ago, I woke up in the middle of the night and could have sworn there was someone in my room smoking the smell was that strong. I was in a non-smoking room, on a totally non-smoking floor, but it seemed that the guest across the hall had decided to smoke. Since most guest room doors do not seal tightly at the bottom, the other guest's smoke seemed to make a beeline into my room. It also made its way into other guests rooms as well as before I could call down to the desk there was a strong smell of air deodorizer (which was almost as overwhelming to me as the smoke had been).

I applaud the efforts of Westin and Marriott to make their entire hotels smoke free. It is a much more pleasant experience for the non-smoking guest. For a number of years I traveled extensively for work and racked up the hotel frequent guest points (some of which I am still using almost 10 years later). As a single traveler on business I would frequent the bar and would prefer to eat there rather than at an isolated table, but would always worry a group of smokers would come in beside me and spoil my dinner. I recently stayed at a Westin Hotel which is all non-smoking and it was nice not to have to worry about those issues.

The Westin check-in process was very nice and friendly, but they made sure you understood if they even found any evidence that you or anyone had smoked in your room, it would be a $250 cleaning charge to your credit card.

As a hotel employee, I wish my hotel was 100 percent non-smoking. We don't have many smoking rooms - less than 20%. Still working the over night shift, when we are near capacity, I get to hear many guest complaints regarding having to sleep in a smoking room.  

Guests who "forget" to request a non-smoking room who demand one at check-in and other issues make being able to give all the guests who want a non-smoking room impossible sometimes when a hotel is close to being full.

Believe it or not, I have lots of guests who are smokers who request a non-smoking room these days. That should tell you something about the smell and condition of smoking rooms in the hotel industry.  

Also my hotel has a tobacco company as large client, and many of their employees also demand a non-smoking room.

Gone are the days of exterior corridors, rooms with balconies, and windows that open in most larger hotels. (If a window does in fact open it's probably limited to about 2 or 3 inches). It is very hard to ventilate modern guest rooms sufficiently to remove those kinds of odors. Smoking rooms require more effort to clean, and start to look worst the soonest.

The  move to the all-white bedding packages of the major hotels may look nice and clean, but there's no hiding dirt or burn marks the way the old floral patterns of days gone by did.

With more and more hotel guests demanding non-smoking rooms and hotels requiring the housekeepers to clean more and more rooms in a shift, it makes good financial sense to make your hotel all non-smoking - it's cheaper to keep clean. Many hotels have undergone expensive multi-million dollar renovations coming out of the post 9-11 slump. The owners and managers want to get the best return for their dollars, and I'm sure don't want have to do that again anytime soon.

Did the owner's all approve the change? I doubt that would be something that would be put before all the hotel owners for a vote. (And like they would agree on ANYTHING) It wasn't put before the Marriott stockholders even.  

Hotel owners own the physical asset but don't have much input or control of how the operation of hotel is conducted beyond ensuring that the hotel is of the expected quality and generates sufficient dollars to the bottom line. If they were more interested, they'd be managing the property themselves. Also understand that Marriott doesn't just manage properties, they also franchise them and that's another kettle of fish to deal with as well.  Most owner's visit infrequently, tour the facilities to make sure there asset is in good condition, review the books and budget, approve capital expenditures, and then they are off until the next quarter. They don't get involved in operational policy issues unless they feel it's affecting their share of the pie. Marriott says 90 percent of its rooms chain-wide are nonsmoking already, so it's really not a huge change. And many localities and states regulate smoking in common areas already.   It may cause some issues for individual operators like here in Richmond or in Durham, or in Winston-Salem, but I'm sure Marriott will deal with them on an individual basis.

As a former Marriott Hotel employee and a current Marriott stockholder, I can assure you that Marriott is all about profit and not about shoving values down other people's throat. Marriott actually has a very good record on employee diversity and tolerance.

In fact the major reason many places are smoke free is the employees. While you may spend an hour or two in a restaurant or bar or hotel, the employees are there for an eight hour shift, five days a week. It's not healthy to be in that environment all the time. At my hotel, I can smell the bar employees long before they get to my desk. Their paperwork even is embedded with the smell that lingers on the paper hours after they turn it in.  Non-smoking regulations are many times implemented not just for the comfort of some guests, but for the health and well-being of the workers who are there to take care of you.

I'm all for freedoms, but your rights end when they either compromise other people's freedoms or create an unsafe situation. You can have freedom of speech, but you can't yell "Fire!" in a theatre. You can smoke at home to your heart's content, but not where other people have no choice but to be exposed to it.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

As an associate for the largest Marriott franchisee in North America and a smoker, I think that it is a good decision by Marriott to go entirely non-smoking.  Over 90% of our guests don't smoke.  Most of us (smokers) can't smoke in most restaurants or any other public place anyway.  So we might as well have it that way in the hotels as well.  Marriott International made this decision to meet the needs of the majority.  Keep in mind that if you smoke in a Marriott hotel after they go completely non-smoking, you will be charged up to $200 cleaning fee, so smokers beware! Perhaps, not being able to smoke in the hotels will make me more likely to quit?

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

As a business owner, Marriott is out for any corporate sponsored travel.  I feel if my employees want to enjoy a smoke after a day's work or a day sitting in a seminar, that is their business.  Sure, they're going to provide an outside smoking area -- can't you just see a couple on a honeymoon trip or a "sanity restoration" weekend away from the kids who are smokers rushing out to the courtyard in their jammies for an after-extracurricular activity smoke?
Seriously, the most bothering aspect of this is that Marriott has stated the "Marriott smoking police" will fine a guest if there is any indication of smoking in their room.  If a guest smoked while packing their bags, while traveling to the hotel, while going out to dinner during their stay at the hotel, etc, are they not going to walk back into their room with a smell of smoke on their bodies and clothing?  Is that luggage sitting in their room not going to smell of cigarette smoke?  How long until a hotel employee enters a room to clean and smells smoke, reports such smell and then "Marriott smoking police" fine a guest who has not violated the smoking policy at all, but instead reeks of residual smoke?  
I'm no attorney -- but I see money being paid out in the future for this policy -- and it isn't to Marriott.  

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Frankly, I don't think Marriott cares about your business.  For Marriott to have a policy and not have a monetary disincentive (fine) would be having a policy without teeth.  It is already illegal to smoke in a hotel room in San Antonio and in New York City and other cities to follow.  Marriott will gain more business because over 90% of its clientele demands non-smoking.  I'm sure they got tired of guests complaining that they got a non-smoking room that smelled like smoke.  In my state, they are trying to raise the cigarette tax by $1.00 and it will likely pass.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Marriott's New Smoking Policy has inspired my New Hotel Policy: avoid Marriott. Hopefully for them, there are enough delusional folks -- like the 'allergic to smoke' "ajb" above (there are no allergens in smoke, which is why allergists and antihistamines don't help, duh) -- to keep them in business. Oh, and "sd lawyer", it is most definitely NOT illegal to smoke in a hotel room in New York OR in San Antonio -- you really ought to get out of California more...

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I applaud the smoking ban (I'm a non-smoker, never have smoked anything in my life).  However, this policy can lead to non-smoking customers being wrongly charged a fine for something they did not do!

This just happened to me.  I stayed at the Rancho Bernardo Marriott Courtyard in San Diego on the 26th of April.  I received my bill, not knowing later I would be charged $250 extra because some housekeeper allegedly smelled smoke in my room.  Upon checking into my room for the first time, I didn't smell ANY smoke, otherwise I would have complained to the front desk!

I have a feeling this policy, while well meaning, could lead to fraudulent practices of overcharging customers (and increasing revenue) because of some "violations" of the smoking policy.  I would hope Marriott would monitor this closely, otherwise they would risk losing loyal customers or face a lawsuit (even class-action) from performing deceptive practices.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Another one bites the dust.  En route from Denver to Kansas City, I spent the night at the Fairfield Inn in Hays, KS.  Three rooms for five guests.  One of the guests is a smoker, who was fully aware the hotel was non-smoking.  He took is habit to the parking lot, actually 25 feet from the front entrance of the hotel.  Upon leaving the hotel, he discarded an empty cigarette pack in the trash.  He forgot his lighter; it was left on the night table.  I'm sure some of you won't be surprised to hear I was charged a $250 restoration fee.

I am a non-smoker, as were three of my other traveling companions.  I entered the alledgedly tarnished room the morning of our departure and didn't smell a trace of cigarette odor, which I am keen at detecting as a non-smoker.  As much as I appreciate non-smoking policies in theory, I have always been against them for obvious reasons.  Cigarettes are still a legal product and there are many people exercising their right to induldge.  

I have stayed in many hotels that have smoking floors.  The Kimpton group for one.  They have an excellent filtration system and I honestly don't detect any tobacco odor.  The most maddening part of the this experience was the unprofessional way the manager handled the situation.  At check-out I was given a bill with the proper charge.  Two days later my online bank statement revealed a charge for $250 more than the statement I received at check-out.  I phoned the manager and waited six days for her to return my call.  She never did.  I finally reached her a week after the fact.  She has changed her story twice.  First it was smoking material that the housekeeping staff found.  Nothing was said about tobacco odor until I received an email from her, after I emailed Marriott's customer service.  There's no way this room had to be taken out of service so it it could be restored for future use.

I have filed a fraudlent credit card claim with Visa.  I was given nothing at check-in to sign informing me that I would be charged this ridiculous fee if it was determined by someone who cleans the toilet that the room had been smoked in.  I've never been a big fan of the Marriott chain, with the exception of the Renaissance brand.  Most Marriotts tend to cater to large conventions, where other guests are inconvenienced by their forebidding presence.

Future stays at Marriott are out.  I'd rather go through airport security.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

The fact that they do not post "No Smoking" signs makes this extremely sneaky. If anyone hears about a class action suit, please post here. I just got hit up for a $250 "fine." Clearly no bearing on the real cost of the damage, in fact the chain saves money by generally having a lower cleaning bill based on it's smoke-free policy, which it's not passing on to the smokers who make a mistake -- although you can't really call it a mistake becaiuse there's no signage. What a rip-off.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I too have been duped.

On June 30th 2007 I stayed at the Marriott Spring Suites Hotel in Gahanna Ohio with my wife and (3) children. I learned that on July 5th, my credit card was charged an additional charge of $250 for an alleged violation of smoking in a non smoking room.

I called the Hotel on July 5th and spoke to the general manager to discuss the situation. He states that house keeping alleged finding cigarette ashes around one of the sinks and that the house keeper also thinks that he or she smelled an odor of smoke in the room. He states that since ashes were found and there was an odor, that smoking had to have occurred in the room and that is no other possible excuse.

Well, guess what? There is an excuse.

I explained to the general manager several times that no one including myself smoked in the hotel room at any time during our stay. There is a very simple explanation for this. I am a heavy smoker. I smoke over a pack a day. I traveled from Cleveland to Gahanna Ohio to attend a family picnic. After the day came to an end, I returned to the hotel with my family to retire for the night. While my children made there way back to the room, my wife and I cleaned and removed all the trash from our van including emptying my van's ashtray's which did include cigarette butts and ashes into a plastic bag. We returned to our room and I threw the bag into the trash can located near the bathroom sink in our room.

The ashes that the hotel staff found simply came up from the bag after it was deposited into the trash can. The supposed odor of smoke in the room was coming from the stale cigarette butts that were also located in the trash.

I asked the general manager what evidence he has to back up his findings that smoking actually occurred in the room. He stated that he does not have any evidence as proof. Only the comments of his hotel house keeper(s) who believe that smoking occurred in the room. He is basing this situation clearly on a sense of smell and opinion.

I did not violate or break a non smoking rule at this hotel just by throwing away old cigarette butts in to the trash from my van. There is no rule that says I can only deposit certain kinds of trash in to a trash can. All the general manager had to do was to call me to discuss the situation. Instead, he rushed to a conclusion that someone smoked in the room, case closed.

Does the Marriott hotels think that throwing a plastic bag full of garbage including cigarette butts and ashes from my van in to a trash can in our hotel room is such a far reach to come up with such an elaborate out of this world excuse to smoke in their hotel room? Is this such an outrageous feat, that no one in their right mind would ever think to do such a thing? I would have been better off dumping my trash in their parking lot. This never would have happened.

The Marriott hotels must understand that these are hotel rooms and not operating rooms. I paid a hotel rate to stay at this hotel which includes his house keeping staff to clean and freshen up a room for the next guest to arrive after I leave. They have no right to charge a fee if a room has an "odor" after a guest leaves. Some guests leave trash, piss on bed linens and may spill beer in a hotel room. What's the charge for these types of odors?

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

What's worse is that there aren't any no smoking signs in the rooms. The only no smoking sign is a 1"x1" international no-smoking symbol decal on the door -- hidden by your hand as you open it -- which does not meet the California OSHA 1" high lettering (considered the standard)

The Bill Marriott blog on the Marriott website indicates the sign should state "This is a smoke-free Hotel. A $250 Room Recovery Fee will be charged for smoking in your Guestroom." The sign did not say that.

A one inch by one inch international no-smoking symbol sign is too small for such a significant material change in the price of the room. This is clearly a deceptive attempt to raise revenue by not clearly indicating that there would be a material change in the price of the room if smoking took place.

The $250 is a fine and has no bearing on the actual cost of repairing the damage. In fact the chain is likely to save on maintenance and decorating costs -- replacing the air conditioning filters less frequently for example -- by having a no smoking policy. Those costs saved chain-wide should cover a mistakenly smoked cigarette's damages, so the $250 is a "fine"

Are VISA and Mastercard in the religion-based anti-smoking, policing business or the travel business? What are VISA going to be asked to police next - coffee?

In my conversation with Holly Banks at Marriott International she said there should be a card-fold sign within the room. There was not. There was no sign within the room, where the smoking took place.

Their website states that I should have received a reminder at the point of reservation that smoking is not allowed and also in a pre arrival e-mail which I did not.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Also just to add to my previous post. Remember Bill Marriott was a Mormon Bishop at one time.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I have read elsewhere, but cannot confirm it as a fact, that some Marriott properties still allow smoking on hotel room balconies with the balcony door shut.  As a smoker, this suits me fine.  I have never smoked in a non smoking room, and only smoke on the balcony if I am in a smoking room which has one.  I also do not smoke on the balcony if others are outside on the surrounding balconies, unless they are smoking also.

Given the new revenue stream which Marriott has created by charging people $250.00 based upon the opinion of undocumented alien maids, I will avoid Marriott like the plague in the future.  Unfortunately, I have a trip coming up where I have to stay at the Marriott at Hilton Head.  It's a wedding deal and all of the guest rooms were booked by a third party.  I am curious if anyone has any experience with whether people are allowed to smoke on the balconies at that hotel.  I am afraid that if I even call the hotel directly to inquire, that the hotel will somehow "tag" me as a smoker and nail me with that fee even if I abide by their policy.

I am also an attorney.  I can tell you a couple of things.  First, if you get nailed with the charge, you have no recourse by contesting the charge with your credit card company.  The credit card company will simply determine that the service for which you paid was provided.  You booked and paid for a room.  You stayed in the room.  Case closed.

Secondly, many states have statutes which protect people from discrimination based merely upon the fact that they smoke.  Most of these laws apply to the workplace, but I believe some states, such as those in the tobacco belt, have laws offering broader protection. I would say that some type of class action suit over the credit card charges is probably an eventual given.

At any rate, when I go to Hilton Head, regardless of the smoking policy, I will make sure to 1) Be as loud as I can in the room, 2) Make sure my wife brings the most offensive perfume she can get her hands on, and get very messy with it in the room, 3) Eat philly cheeseteaks in the room, 4) leave trash under the bed, including cheesesteak detritus, and 5) burn lots of incense.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I'm disputing the charge with VISA and I'll post what happens. I would be suprised if VISA would consider themselves policemen -- particularly religious police. BTW I thought the hotel was a bit strange when on checking in they couldn't tell me where the nearest liquor store was.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Here's the 1"x1" decal. Note it's not in the room, not at eye level, does not meet any known standard and would in any case be hidden by your hand and not visible to your guest if you were the person inserting the keycard.

http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/9074/327.jpg

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I don't have a problem with Marriot banning smoking. After all, it is private property. I do have a problem with the State banning smoking in private establishments because it is a violation of private property rights.

That said, if you are going to be fining people for violating some rule, you need proper justice procedures. And that means Due Process that will protect those who are falsely accused. Since Marriot is not going to do that, I think they should be limited to refusing service or throwing people out who violate their rules.

Personally I won't stay in a Marriot. I would rather avoid being falsely accused of smoking in their rooms.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I'm so glad you have hotels that are non-smoking. for you to visit.  Stay away from the hotels that allow smoking.... I just don't want to hear it anymore.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

They should also charge you if your hotel smells of body odor.  I certainly wouldn't want to stay in a room that stank of someone's lack of hygiene!

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Good point lisitpcs, I agree the simplest solution would be to throw the person out, but they don't make any revenue that way. In my case they continued to derive revenue from me -- a room night charge and a room service charge AND the fine.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

HOW TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK FOR A SMOKING VIOLATION

I as well as a lot of other hotel guests have been duped by Marriott hotels for a $250.00 smoking violation charge. It is my pleasure to share some important information on how and why you will get your money back just like I did. It is important to understand that if this hotel chain is going to charge guests a $250.00 charge, the Marriott hotels must follow some very important rules.

1. Marriott hotels can verbally advise as well as post their no smoking policy all they want. They can even go as far as wall papering the walls with it. A hotel guest must be given the policy in writing as well as getting the cardholders signature acknowledging their acceptance to the policy at check in. If the Marriott hotels do not have your signature, you can smoke all you want in your hotel room. You will get your money back.

2. In addition to a valid signature, this hotel chain must provide clear irrefutable and conclusive evidence that smoking has or had occurred. You must be provided with proof. This hotels current policy of obtaining evidence with regards to opinion, I saw, I smell, I assume, I think, I believe, he said, she said, will not be sufficient anymore.

3. In addition to clear irrefutable and conclusive evidence that smoking has or had occurred. You must be provided with proof that services for a room recovery were actually completed by the hotel. The hotels verbal word that an odor neutralizing device was used or additional cleaning was required after you check out is all a matter of he said, she said.  

**Now the good part. How to get your money back**

1. For example, it is Visa's policy that the cardholder's signature on card-present transactions is required. Failure to obtain the cardholder's signature could result in a chargeback for "no signature" if the cardholder denies authorizing or participating in the transaction. Most credit card companies and banks follow this very important rule. (This is your life saver)

2. Immediately notify your Credit Card Company or bank to dispute the charge. Put it in writing. Don't wait another day. You have a limited amount of time.

3. Advise your financial institution in writing that you did not sign, authorize or participate in the transaction. The burden of proof is now on the shoulders of the hotel to prove otherwise. Don't waste your time arguing with the hotel. They will stand firm on the situation.

4. Since this hotel will have a very hard time with trying to validate the charge with regards to the above, the following chargeback cycle will occur so that the Marriott hotels will eat the $250.00 charge in addition to a chargeback fee from the Acquirer.

1. The cardholder disputes the transaction.

2. The card issuer sends the transaction back electronically to the Acquirer.

3. Acquirer receives the chargeback, resolves the issue or forwards it to the merchant (Marriott hotel).

4. The merchant (Marriott hotel) either accepts the chargeback or addresses the chargeback and resubmits it back to the Acquirer.

5. The Acquirer reviews the information received from the merchant (Marriott Hotel). If the Acquirer agrees that the merchant (Marriott hotels) information addresses the chargeback, the Acquirer represents the chargeback electronically to the issuer.

6. Issuer receives the represented item. If appropriate, the issuer re-posts it to the cardholders account. If the chargeback issue is not appropriately addressed, the issuer may submit the item to Visa (for example) for a financial liability decision.

7. The cardholder receives the dispute resolution information and may be re-billed or credited.

Keep in mind that the chargeback cycle is for all transactions in general. Not just for the Marriott hotels. You need not to worry at all that you will have to pay for the smoking violation.

If the Marriott hotel that you have done business with suspects that a smoking violation has or had occurred during your stay, be prepared. They will put a $250.00 charge on your credit card without your signature. This is called pre-compliant. This basically means that they have authorized and validated a charge that has been verbally agreed upon between you and the Marriott hotel. In the eyes of your financial institution, if you don't complain and dispute the charge you now have a verbal agreement and just let them get away with it.

Have you ever made a reservation online or over the phone with a credit card and noticed that during check in that the hotel swipes your card but does not ask for a signature? That's pre-compliance. They only have an electronic signature from your card. With some hotels like the Marriott, when you wake up the next day and find your hotel rooms receipt slipped under your door, it states your room charge along with the statement "electronic signature on file".

If you do stay at a Marriott hotel or any hotel, do yourself a favor. Sign and agree to the room charge at check in. If you don't sign at check in and agree to the rate, a hotel can charge anything they want for the room. For example, if you go to the Marriott's website and read their no smoking policy. It states the following:

A Breath of Fresh Air --
Marriott Goes 100% Smoke-Free in North America

What measures will Marriott take to enforce this policy?

This policy will be part of our Quality Assurance process. We are training our associates to respond. For example, housekeepers will be taught to look out for signs of smoking in the hotel. Guests will be reminded at the point of reservations and upon arrival that smoking is not allowed. Pre-arrival email notifications will also include a reference to the policy. There will be a significant room recovery fee for guests who do not comply in order to cover the extensive cost of restoring guest rooms to a smoke-free condition.

Notice how they do not state what the actual charge is? If you were to sign a statement that you agree with their terms but don't get the actual charge in writing, what is to stop them from charging $250, $500 or even more? Pre-compliance.

Remember, the Marriott hotels need your signature to validate a charge and you need proof that a violation has or had occurred and proof that services were rendered. I hope that this helps in clearing up a lot of confusion with regards to your rights.

If you have been charged. Do what I did. Don't let them get away with it.

1.    Dispute the charge immediately in writing with your financial institution.
2.    File a complaint with your local Better Business Bureau.
3.    File a complaint with your states Attorney General's office.
4.    Don't ever stay at a Marriott hotel now or in the future. If you do visit their hotel, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!

Regards,
Monmikf

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I stayed at a Marriott a few weeks ago and I am a smoker but I did not smoke in my room.  When I checked in I did sense the smell of smoke but I didn't report it. I ask to be located on the 1st floor by a door so I wouldn't be tempted to smoke in my room.  I just received my bill and sure enough there was a $250.00 smoking fee. The frustrating thing is that I made great efforts not to smoke in my room.  I sent the Marriot an e-mail asking them to remove this charge and of course if they will not they will have lost a good customer. I'm fine with the Marriott becoming non-smoking but they need to understand that smokers also carry the stink with them on their clothes and in their luggage.  

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Dear eyewall:

Respectfully, after reading your comment, I am glad that you are not my attorney. How can you say that people don't have any recourse if they get nailed with a charge?

The whole point of a cardholder's signature is to accept and agree to a charge for goods and or services that have been rendered.

Think about it. Let's say for example you went to a restaurant and had dinner and the food was excellent but your waiter was terrible. You decide not to leave a tip. You receive your bill, pay via your credit card, sign the bill and leave. Your waiter comes to the table and determines that he got screwed. Your waiter feels that he did a great job and decides to run his tip thru the credit card machine after you left. A month later you get your credit card statement and sure enough there is an extra $20.00 you did not agree to. When you dispute the charge, the first thing your credit company is going to look for, is the receipt copy that you signed and left for the waiter and compare that to the receipt that you left the restaurant with. If your receipt does not match the restaurants copy for the charges, guess what? $20.00 is coming back to you.

The Marriott smoking violation works the same way. How can a credit card company determine that a service was provided for a room recovery fee without a cardholder's signature accepting the charge? Without a signature, what is to stop the hotel from verbally quoting a $99 a night room charge and then actually charging $1000 a night charge after you leave? The whole point is to sign and agree to a charge in writing. The next time you charge something, look at the receipt carefully. Do you notice how there are (2) copies for the transaction? (1) copy for you and (1) copy for the merchant.

In small print below the signature line on the receipt it usually states something like the following.

Merchant:
Date:
Amount: $$.$$

X-----------------------------------

I agree to pay the above total amount according to the card issuer agreement.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

If you have a complaint and you are getting nowhere with the Marriott Hotels general customer service department or the idiot behind the front desk at the hotel in which you have mistakenly done business with and you want to go right to the top. The following information is now available.

**Marriott Corporate Office**

Sara Terkelsen (Mr. Marriott's personal leiason)

1-800-422-0728

e-mail address: Sara.Terkelsen@marriott.com

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

**Correction*

I would like to make a correction to my comment regarding, "How to get your money back for a smoking violation."

Although I stated that a hotel guest can smoke all they want in their hotel room, I would like to correct that statement.

I DO NOT WANT TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO SMOKE IN YOUR HOTEL ROOM.

Based on my experience, I was accused of smoking simply because of an odor and ashes found in my hotel room.

***PLEASE DO NOT SMOKE IN YOUR HOTEL ROOM ON PURPOSE**

What I want to get across to everyone is that if you bring an odor of smoke into your hotel room or you leave evidence in your room that you are a smoker as I did, you need not to worry about being charged especially without a valid signature accepting the smoking policy. I hope that this clears up any confusion.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Re my August posts I can happily report that my financial institution refunded me the $250 fine based simply on my written statement to them that I did not smoke (as it was my guest who commited the heinous act.) Apparently agreeing that they are not in the policing business. I hope this resolution gives others the courage to fight these outrageous attempts at what is for all intents and purposes thinly disguised highway robbery.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I would like to know if the $250 fine is a one time fee charged if you smoke in your room at the end of your stay or do they notify you while you are there and charge you on that day to clean the room.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

It was a one-time fee on departure. In my case I actually had to ask and wait around for a print-out of the bill on checking out. They would have been quite happy for me to leave without a printed bill and knowledge of the fine -- presumably reducing the likelyhood of a guest acting up in the new "social networking style" lobby.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

The Fairfield Inn in Tyler Texas General Mgr. Steven Cottrell 'took' $250 from a disabled couple's checking account for throwing away ashes in their room trash can! They stayed at the hotel on January 17, 2008. Cottrell used their debit card (which went right to there checking account as opposed to a credit card). The couple had driven to Texas because her mother had died. It was a sad occassion, of course. Two passengers had ridden with them to the funeral service and had smoked in their car. These two relatives are appalled!! When the couple left Tyler, they were trying to beat a mountain snowstorm that was heading towards their home in Angel Fire NM. At 3 am they were in an isolated area in a blinding snowstorm and needed gas - only to find that their account had been emptied by Cottrell! They were stranded with no money, no gas, no food, no where to go. She suffered panic attacks, cried uncontrollably and couldn't breathe. By God's grace only, they finally made it home. As I write this, they are still in dire straights because of Cottrell. It has been snowing nonstop since they returned home and they still have no money, food, medicine, heat or gas. They had budgeted every last cent to go to the funeral and to still have enough until their disability check arrived. These folks are literally destitue because of the actions of this hard-nosed idiot. I took MonMik's advice (here on hotel chatter)and contacted Sara Terkelsen on their behalf. (Thanks, MonMik-you are very gracious to help others, oh and Terkelsen refused to send the proof of spending the $250 on room restoration) Anyway, Terkelsen is one cold-hearted, self-righteous individual. Any suggestions on how to get their money back asap? They are a sweet and kind couple of modest means. Oh-by the way...they left the maid a tip and also left a nice comment card...then helped a stranded 'hotel guest' in the hotel parking lot by jump-starting his car before they left the hotel!!!This can not be legal. The pompous arrogance of these individuals reminded me of Hitler cronies.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

The Courtyard by Marriott Hotel in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada billed my credit card without notice for a $250 'restoration fee' after spending one night in November 2007.

At no time did I smoke in the room (I'm a non smoker) and I had no guests. Yet when the credit card statement came in, an extra $250 had been added by Marriott.

I called the hotel in Ottawa repeatedly over the next two weeks, leaving messages for the manager to phone me back with an explanation but he/she never did. The only information I could get was from a hotel employee who told me they 'believed' that I had probably been fined for smoking in the room.

When the Ottawa hotel manager did not return my calls, I then called the corporate office in the USA and explained the situation. The person I spoke with there apologized profusely and promised that someone would absolutely be calling me within four business days. No call ever came.

Finally I decided to contact the credit card company to inform them of the fraudulent charge. Much to my surprise, I was told the charge had already been reversed by the hotel! Nobody from Marriott ever returned any of my repeated calls, and never once contacted me with any explanation of why they charged my card or to offer an apology.

I find it extremely disrespectful to have never been contacted by the hotel. It was all such a huge hassle - I wonder how much my time was wasted listening to canned music while on hold, trying to sort all of this out. Not to mention to $250 I had to pay initially to avoid late fees from the credit card company.

I have stayed at Marriot hotels frequently in the past, and as a non-smoker was supportive of the smoking ban. But their independent policing policy is evidently grossly flawed, as is the customer service and management of this Ottawa Marriot hotel. I too, would like to see the evidence and receipts from this extraordinary $250 'restoration fee' which they fraudulently charged me with. To this date, no one has ever contacted me from the hotel chain. After doing some research on the internet and reading about how many others have also been fraudulently charged - needless to say I would be extremely wary about staying at any Marriot hotel again. I have also instructed our employees to use other hotels from now on because I quite simply can't afford to run the same risk on the company's dime.

It's a shame that what could, in fact, be a positive step toward a healthy smoke-free environment is being managed so poorly by such a major and respectable (but not necessarily always respectful) hotel line.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

Marriot is full of BS.

I stayed at one not by choice. I smoked. I got away with it.. so I made it a point to try it when I needed a room. I would go to a marriot, sign the big brother paperwork saying I would be charged if I smoked.. and then smoked away.. NOTHING.

Just do as you please within reason at marriot properties.  They cant catch you, they never will be able to until they install cameras in every room (And yes.. they talked about this a few years ago when the smoking ban was being talked about)

NO ONE tells me what habbits I can and cant have when I check into a place I AM PAYING my money for.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

The Mormans didnt catch me.. I smoked in a marriot when I stayed there a week ago.  Just bring some fabreeze and ignore the petty rules.

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

I stayed at the COURTYARD DURHAM (NC) 3/25! DID NOT ONCE smoke in the room, but still managed to have $250.00 charged to my credit card!! Tell me that aint some chit!
They will only hurt themselves in the end, because before I pay this, I'll cancel my credit card, pay every dime BUT the $250.00 and file a report with the credit buruea as to WHY I am refusing!
$250.00!!!!???? Hell, I could have fumigated 5 houses for that!!!
Definately pissed off about it!
So, avoid giving them your CC # at allllll cost! Doesnt matter if you smoke in the damn room or not!, they will charge your ass!!!

Re: OpenThread: Marriott's New Smoking Policy

So, sportsmom, do you suggest carrying cash.  I know debit card is definitely not the way to go...and it seems like at least some people have had good results with disputing credit cards (and I wouldn't trust the passive aggressive person who said he was a lawyer).  But that can be a lot of cash to carry around.  Ideas?

Will not book Marriott

I mean c'mon people ... if you won't throw us a few of your lousiest rooms so we can smoke inside, out of the weather, AT LEAST give us a decent place to smoke outside.  A roof, a bench, a LIGHT in the evening would be appreciated.  As a female, I have been forced outside to a very dark, isolated area to have a cigarette.  Honestly, if I were a mugger, rapist, serial killer (ha), I would hang out near the outdoor places set aside by Marriott for the "guests" to smoke.  

I got a full refund from visa

In August 2008 I was charged $249.99 in addition to my bill. I followed the advice of poster " MONMIKF " and Visa won my case for me. The whole nasty experience took just under 90 days from start to finish . THANK YOU MONMIKF.

 I am so happy that I found this website . Thank You HotelChatter.com

This advice worked for me

Thank You for leaving such good instructions. In just under 90 days Visa won my case for me and I got my $249.99 Thank You Monmikf, and Thank You HotelChatter.com

I'm sorry, but...

...last week, I stayed at a Marriott property in the southeast of the US of A. And I smoked in my room. And I smoke cigars.

I had fully expected to be asked to sign a "thou shalt not smoke in your room" form when I checked in, but I wasnt asked to.

I had fully expected there to be a sign in my room, or on the door, telling me that "thou shalt be send to Marriott Jail if you smoke in this room", but there wasnt.

Instead, at the front door of the hotel, there was a very small sign which said something along the lines of "Do Not Smoke Within X-Number Of Feet From This Building", which made the public ashtray stands that the hotel has put three feet from its front door quite laughable. However, like a good boy, on the first night, when I wanted to smoke, I went down to the public ashtrays which are three feet from the front door even though they're not supposed to be within x-number of feet of the front door. Sigh. Me and my cigar froze our tuchas off in the minus 5 degree weather.

The next morning, I was leaving the hotel to go to a meeting, and I had to stop at the front desk to ask for my key to be re-coded because it wouldnt open my front door. While I was there, a guy was standing behind the reception desk talking to another guest, and I overheard him say he was the general manager. He was about 12 years old (the general manager, not the guest).

Anyway, I went about my business, and when I got back to the hotel around 5 hours later, I spotted the 12 year old, standing at a side door to the hotel (which he was propping open with his foot), smoking (in spite of smoking not being allowed within x-number of feet from the hotel)

For the following 2 nights, I smoked in my room. I figured that if its good enough for the 12 year old, its certainly good enough for someone like me who was paying close to $200 a night for a hotel room.

And did anyone say anything to me? Nope. The housekeeping woman came into the room each day, and never said a word, and because I was trying to purposely test Marriott's convictions, I didnt hide the fact that I'm a middle aged cigar smoking man who smoked cigars in his $200 a night hotel room.

I didnt get charged a penny. Nobody said anything to me. Nobody gave a damn.

I'm not saying that everyone should be a rebel. Instead, what I'm saying is "whats good for the goose is good for the gander", and if Marriott employess (such as the 12 year old) can smoke half-in and half-out of his own hotel, then I sure as hell can too.

If you're really desperate to smoke in your Marriott hotel room and you dont want to freeze your buns off, go to Bath & Body Works and buy one of their little home perfume sprays. They're super concentrated and they kill any smell (and any human) within a 20 mile radius.

So Marriott, I'm a cigar smoking man and I smoked in your hotel. So shoot me.

I had fully resigned myself to the fact that I was going to respect the hotel's rules and the guests that were to stay in my room after me, but if the general manager cant respect the rules, why the hell should I?

Two wrongs dont make a right, but one man can make a stand, however small and insignificant. And I did.

Avoid "restoration fee"

I ALWAYS immediately register a complaint that my room smells like smoke. And then I smoke all I want but I do conceal it.  

revenue 30% increase

I was a Maitre d' years ago when the whole I'm so cool I smoke a cigar thing was happening; the restaurant I worked in had a smoking section.  I fought for months with the owner to eliminate said section.  Fortunately I had a GM with vision and once smoking was "cleared" from the venue, profits increased 30% and stayed that way for 3 years until Sept. 11.

cloudyb

Hey Cloudy B, I sure am happy you got away with smoking your cigars...but why do you have to diss on the "12" year old manager? It is because of him and his I don't give a crap attitude that you were able to rebel without paying a price! Do you think if that Marriott employed a corporate, non-smoking prick that he/she wouldn't have every maid looking to nail someone like you for 250 big ones! Funny story though. I got a kick out of it.

non smoking ban

Oh by the way...my opinion on the non-smoking ban and all the fines. What a load of crap. In my town we just had a huge casino go up and across the street...a new Fairfield Inn. The rates are high, the hotel is beautiful...the staff is friendly, but I don't think the casino people, if that is what they are after are going to comply or stay. They just want an old fashioned floral bedspread hotel with an ashtray and a cheap price tag. Hotels are gross, what are they trying to prove?